FAR 61.51 Pilot Logbooks 

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person: 

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of §61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft’s type certificate; or 

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft OR THE REGULATIONS UNDER WHICH THE FLIGHT IS BEING CONDUCTED.

Who gets PIC? Who doesn't?

Senario –

I have a Private Pilot single engine land endorsment, can I log the training time I have in a multi-engine aircraft as I am sole manipulator? (but not rated yet… and i have not solo-ed in one)

Please email me a response.

Senario –

I have a Private Pilot single engine land endorsment, can I log the training time I have in a multi-engine aircraft as I am sole manipulator? (but not rated yet… and i have not solo-ed in one)

Please email me a response.

Senario –

I have a Private Pilot single engine land endorsment, can I log the training time I have in a multi-engine aircraft as I am sole manipulator? (but not rated yet… and i have not solo-ed in one)

Please email me a response.

aw well in 91.109, nowhere in there does it say you can log SIC, like i said before techinically they are also PIC because they are responsible for “see and avoid” responsibility of other aircraft…therefore they can both log PIC, now as a “safety pilot” i prob wouldnt log that but since im a cfi i dont have to worry about that

as i said in earlier comments…the only time a person may log SIC is a)when a TYPE rating is required b)an aircraft over 12,500 lbs, c)any turbo-jet aircraft, and d)any aircraft the FAA deems worthy of requiring a SIC… last time i checked a saftey pilot doesnt fall under any of these…technically yes in order for Pilot A to be under the foggles another person has to be aboard but that other person does not meet any of this criteria for SIC

now in your scenario above i dont think Pilot B would be able to act as either PIC or SIC of any airplane because he is not current, due to him not having his flight review accomplished…none of those factors would have any effect on if they log either PIC or SIC, u dont have to be instrumented rated to act as a safety pilot, you dont need to be endorsed to fly high-performance airplanes, and your not current to fly any airplane because your not current yourself

let me put in an example…im a cfi(not a CFII)…if a pilot of a high-performance aircraft asks me to act as a saftey pilot of his aircraft so he can get instrument current, i can log it as PIC. that is because even though i dont have a hign-performance endorsement myself i am still acting as his safety pilot which means i can log the PIC

aw well in 91.109, nowhere in there does it say you can log SIC, like i said before techinically they are also PIC because they are responsible for “see and avoid” responsibility of other aircraft…therefore they can both log PIC, now as a “safety pilot” i prob wouldnt log that but since im a cfi i dont have to worry about that

as i said in earlier comments…the only time a person may log SIC is a)when a TYPE rating is required b)an aircraft over 12,500 lbs, c)any turbo-jet aircraft, and d)any aircraft the FAA deems worthy of requiring a SIC… last time i checked a saftey pilot doesnt fall under any of these…technically yes in order for Pilot A to be under the foggles another person has to be aboard but that other person does not meet any of this criteria for SIC

now in your scenario above i dont think Pilot B would be able to act as either PIC or SIC of any airplane because he is not current, due to him not having his flight review accomplished…none of those factors would have any effect on if they log either PIC or SIC, u dont have to be instrumented rated to act as a safety pilot, you dont need to be endorsed to fly high-performance airplanes, and your not current to fly any airplane because your not current yourself

let me put in an example…im a cfi(not a CFII)…if a pilot of a high-performance aircraft asks me to act as a saftey pilot of his aircraft so he can get instrument current, i can log it as PIC. that is because even though i dont have a hign-performance endorsement myself i am still acting as his safety pilot which means i can log the PIC

aw well in 91.109, nowhere in there does it say you can log SIC, like i said before techinically they are also PIC because they are responsible for “see and avoid” responsibility of other aircraft…therefore they can both log PIC, now as a “safety pilot” i prob wouldnt log that but since im a cfi i dont have to worry about that

as i said in earlier comments…the only time a person may log SIC is a)when a TYPE rating is required b)an aircraft over 12,500 lbs, c)any turbo-jet aircraft, and d)any aircraft the FAA deems worthy of requiring a SIC… last time i checked a saftey pilot doesnt fall under any of these…technically yes in order for Pilot A to be under the foggles another person has to be aboard but that other person does not meet any of this criteria for SIC

now in your scenario above i dont think Pilot B would be able to act as either PIC or SIC of any airplane because he is not current, due to him not having his flight review accomplished…none of those factors would have any effect on if they log either PIC or SIC, u dont have to be instrumented rated to act as a safety pilot, you dont need to be endorsed to fly high-performance airplanes, and your not current to fly any airplane because your not current yourself

let me put in an example…im a cfi(not a CFII)…if a pilot of a high-performance aircraft asks me to act as a saftey pilot of his aircraft so he can get instrument current, i can log it as PIC. that is because even though i dont have a hign-performance endorsement myself i am still acting as his safety pilot which means i can log the PIC

aw well in 91.109, nowhere in there does it say you can log SIC, like i said before techinically they are also PIC because they are responsible for “see and avoid” responsibility of other aircraft…therefore they can both log PIC, now as a “safety pilot” i prob wouldnt log that but since im a cfi i dont have to worry about that

as i said in earlier comments…the only time a person may log SIC is a)when a TYPE rating is required b)an aircraft over 12,500 lbs, c)any turbo-jet aircraft, and d)any aircraft the FAA deems worthy of requiring a SIC… last time i checked a saftey pilot doesnt fall under any of these…technically yes in order for Pilot A to be under the foggles another person has to be aboard but that other person does not meet any of this criteria for SIC

now in your scenario above i dont think Pilot B would be able to act as either PIC or SIC of any airplane because he is not current, due to him not having his flight review accomplished…none of those factors would have any effect on if they log either PIC or SIC, u dont have to be instrumented rated to act as a safety pilot, you dont need to be endorsed to fly high-performance airplanes, and your not current to fly any airplane because your not current yourself

let me put in an example…im a cfi(not a CFII)…if a pilot of a high-performance aircraft asks me to act as a saftey pilot of his aircraft so he can get instrument current, i can log it as PIC. that is because even though i dont have a hign-performance endorsement myself i am still acting as his safety pilot which means i can log the PIC

Pilot A wishes to fly with Pilot B for the purpose of practicing instrument flying in a high-performance aircraft. Pilot A may legally act as PIC and has agreed to act as PIC. Pilot A will be wearing a view-limiting device and will be flying by reference to instruments. Pilot B is rated in the aircraft and has a current medical certificate but is not instrument rated, endorsed to fly high-performance airplanes, or have a current flight review. Pilot B has agreed to be the safety pilot for the flight.

Pilot A may log PIC and simulated instrument time. Pilot B may log second-in-command (SIC) time. Pilot A is assuming PIC responsibilities and may log PIC. Pilot B is a crewmember where more than one pilot is required and may log SIC (FAR 61.51). Again, because Pilot B is a required crewmember, he/she will need a current medical certificate (FAR 61.3).

Why is Pilot B a required crew member? Because you must always have a safety pilot under simulated instrument conditions. (FAR 91.109)

Happy Flying!

Jason

Pilot A wishes to fly with Pilot B for the purpose of practicing instrument flying in a high-performance aircraft. Pilot A may legally act as PIC and has agreed to act as PIC. Pilot A will be wearing a view-limiting device and will be flying by reference to instruments. Pilot B is rated in the aircraft and has a current medical certificate but is not instrument rated, endorsed to fly high-performance airplanes, or have a current flight review. Pilot B has agreed to be the safety pilot for the flight.

Pilot A may log PIC and simulated instrument time. Pilot B may log second-in-command (SIC) time. Pilot A is assuming PIC responsibilities and may log PIC. Pilot B is a crewmember where more than one pilot is required and may log SIC (FAR 61.51). Again, because Pilot B is a required crewmember, he/she will need a current medical certificate (FAR 61.3).

Why is Pilot B a required crew member? Because you must always have a safety pilot under simulated instrument conditions. (FAR 91.109)

Happy Flying!

Jason

Pilot A wishes to fly with Pilot B for the purpose of practicing instrument flying in a high-performance aircraft. Pilot A may legally act as PIC and has agreed to act as PIC. Pilot A will be wearing a view-limiting device and will be flying by reference to instruments. Pilot B is rated in the aircraft and has a current medical certificate but is not instrument rated, endorsed to fly high-performance airplanes, or have a current flight review. Pilot B has agreed to be the safety pilot for the flight.

Pilot A may log PIC and simulated instrument time. Pilot B may log second-in-command (SIC) time. Pilot A is assuming PIC responsibilities and may log PIC. Pilot B is a crewmember where more than one pilot is required and may log SIC (FAR 61.51). Again, because Pilot B is a required crewmember, he/she will need a current medical certificate (FAR 61.3).

Why is Pilot B a required crew member? Because you must always have a safety pilot under simulated instrument conditions. (FAR 91.109)

Happy Flying!

Jason

Pilot A wishes to fly with Pilot B for the purpose of practicing instrument flying in a high-performance aircraft. Pilot A may legally act as PIC and has agreed to act as PIC. Pilot A will be wearing a view-limiting device and will be flying by reference to instruments. Pilot B is rated in the aircraft and has a current medical certificate but is not instrument rated, endorsed to fly high-performance airplanes, or have a current flight review. Pilot B has agreed to be the safety pilot for the flight.

Pilot A may log PIC and simulated instrument time. Pilot B may log second-in-command (SIC) time. Pilot A is assuming PIC responsibilities and may log PIC. Pilot B is a crewmember where more than one pilot is required and may log SIC (FAR 61.51). Again, because Pilot B is a required crewmember, he/she will need a current medical certificate (FAR 61.3).

Why is Pilot B a required crew member? Because you must always have a safety pilot under simulated instrument conditions. (FAR 91.109)

Happy Flying!

Jason

The safety pilot must be rated and endorsed to LEGALLY fly the airplane the training / practice is conducted in. He is not second in command; the flight is operating in visual conditions and he is actually the primary pilot. The only reason the hooded pilot is logging PIC time is that he is the SOLE MANIPULATOR of the flight controls.

Rod might want to check with a FSDO regarding SIC time. I’ve never heard that before.

FAR 61.51, A private pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight during which that person:
(1) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(2) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(3) Is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft >>or the regulations under which the flight is conducted<>private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown<<.

I don’t think Rod is correct in assuming that a safety pilot can be appropriately rated if he can’t legally fly the airplane.

FAR 61.51 Pilot Logbooks

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of §61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft’s type certificate; or

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

The safety pilot must be rated and endorsed to LEGALLY fly the airplane the training / practice is conducted in. He is not second in command; the flight is operating in visual conditions and he is actually the primary pilot. The only reason the hooded pilot is logging PIC time is that he is the SOLE MANIPULATOR of the flight controls.

Rod might want to check with a FSDO regarding SIC time. I’ve never heard that before.

FAR 61.51, A private pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight during which that person:
(1) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(2) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(3) Is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft >>or the regulations under which the flight is conducted<>private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown<<.

I don’t think Rod is correct in assuming that a safety pilot can be appropriately rated if he can’t legally fly the airplane.

FAR 61.51 Pilot Logbooks

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:

(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of §61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft’s type certificate; or

(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.